Thank you all!

Thank you!

I totally agree with you! Go pro-lifers!!

Thank you, it's ALL Jesus. He gave me the words:)

Hi Dr. Faustus! Thank you for taking the time to comment on my poem! I really appreciate it, even though our viewpoints differ. I have responded in blue or blue bold and put your words in black bold italic.

You started by saying,

 

“If God exists (which we will assume for the sake of argument, we will also assume the bible is true)”

This is important, and I appreciate you establishing a starting point which both sides can access. Though your application of this starting point is inadequate, your desire for clarity is an important and considerate step. Too often people find themselves talking past one another, so thank you for this.

Then He is almighty and has the power to do anything he so desires. Then if God hated abortion, he would do what he did to those who have previously angered him and cause frogs to rain down from the sky (poor frogs), or infect those guilty with plague. Or kill them in some way.

Here, the conclusion that you reach by using this is false because it fails to include a thoroughly Biblical view of God. As your starting point was accepting the God of the Bible, then in order for your argument to be truly logical, you would need to account for the presuppositions, meaning how the God of the Bible acts. This is the point at which the logic of your argument breaks down.

This is no small point, because any system is only as useful as it coheres with reality. If it were, indeed, the case that God's actions within the Biblical narrative were generally and fully summarized in the following: "He would do what he did to those who have previously angered him and cause frogs to rain down from the sky (poor frogs), or infect those guilty with plague. Or kill them in some way," then your conclusion that follows would be correct! But this premise is false because it doesn't offer an honest view of God in the Bible, or even within the Old Testament.

Even within the most famous demonstrations of God's wrath, the conquering of Canaan, His action is preceded by four hundred years of his patience, as seen in the following, "And they (the Israelites) shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete." (Genesis 15:16). Here God's wrath upon those who oppose Him is inevitable, but delayed, because to act at that point would not suit His purposes. He is giving the Amorites time to turn from their evil and acknowledge Him.

I would cite as a contemporary example Abraham Lincoln's and Robert E. Lee's separate assessment of the Civil War. Both of these men understood that God will put up with unrighteousness for quite a while, because their view of God was based on the Biblical witness. They also attributed the immense suffering brought upon the United States by the Civil War as God, in Lincoln's own words-bringing His judgment in His time:

" if God wills that [the war] continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether."Psalms 19:9

There is an even more important point to be made within the proposed framework of your argument. Romans 3:24-26 makes clear that your view of God, Who has a moral obligation to an immediate and thorough justice, can and does show patience towards the unrighteous, because of Jesus Christ. God can be merciful towards those who hate Him, because Christ took the, as you point out, necessary punishment for those hateful acts. In other words, Jesus took the frogs for them. And God now looks on those who side with Jesus as covered by the perfectness of Jesus.

So when you write the following,

Since for some off reason this hasn't happened, we can then say that God does not care about abortion, at least not enough to do anything about it (himself). Seeing as God locked a lion's jaw just to save Daniel, yet does nothing for all the dead babies it appears he really doesn't want them alive.

you are failing to take into account either God's patience with us, or, and much more importantly, that Christ paid the consequences for evil, so that God doesn't need to act every moment to right a wrong.

This is important for you. Goodness, laws, fairness, even logic necessitates an objective point to be based on, one which is lacking in the worldview of the agnostic. If we are just products of random mutations, made by amoral, undiscerning selective forces, then on what do we based even our logic? Because it seems to work? If an eternal Being chooses to act in one situation to have a desired effect, and chooses to not act in another situation to have a desired effect (which is necessary within a Biblical framework), then how do we look over a situation without that perspective? The answer is: we can’t.

"Furthermore, if god has a plan for everyone and everything, as most American christians believe. Then if a baby is aborted, it was god's plan for that baby to be aborted. Think about it he's all knowing and all powerful, thus if something he didn't like was going to happen, he wouldn't let it happen. Even this post, by that logic, would not have happened unless he wanted it to."

This, again, offers an inadequate view of the Biblical witness, a sound view of which is the foundation for your reply. God establishing how things are going to come to pass does not exclude free creatures doing evil things. An evil action can bring about a desired consequence or reaction, even while the mind of the actor is making the evil that he wanted, happen. How often have we, in our own lives, committed major errors, which hurt us in some way but which brought about a proper perspective for the future. This same principle may be applied to this argument. There needn't be any difference or contradiction, as we can see in our own experience.

However as you can see using god as the cornerstone of your argument takes away from your argument, because if he cared so much it wouldn't happen.

I believe I have begun to demonstrate the opposite, but I would love to continue this discussion, if you are willing. There is a great deal to say about the proper emotional response to an injustice, and how that is impossible if there is no God, and whether or not “human rights” has any meaning if there is no God, and so on. God himself is putting up with both you and me right now, because He wants you and me to listen to Him. So let’s continue!

Here's a question to throw out there: If there is no God is abortion okay? And I would answer: It Absolutely is! If we are all just organic matter that will one day die and pass out of existence then, why is killing an unborn baby wrong?

Thank you so much for weighing in! Please keep posting! This is becoming a very deep conversation that has great potential for digging into really important questions. I appreciate all the readers and posters. Keep all comments coming!-EvelynDrakeDarklighter

Thank you! What stirred you about it?